Tuesday, March 28, 2006

You Can't Argue With Sucksess


1982 Mystic Records

A while back someone suggested I post the You Can't Argue With Success LP in its entirety after I'd posted the No Crisis track from it. So here we go. We've got some good Secret Hate tracks here, as well as the best Crewd tracks on record, and who can resist those rascals, or should I say "little devils" from Mad Society (sorry, it's getting late and I'm getting slap happy).

It's sorta funny to see Mystic Records' stock rise, so to speak, all these years later. Not that they didn't put out some good stuff, they did have a few including this one, it's just that the label always seemed a little on the cheesy side. In fact, I was floored at the response another Mystic release got on one of the other blogs. People seemed to be really geekin' over it. Now that I sound like a major record snob, I'll stop.....although, all the hubbub did get me to take another listen and, I have to admit, the record in question did sound alot better than remembered.

However, I am reminded of a certain line from Raider's of the Lost Ark that the character Belloq utters to Indiana Jones with regard to the nature and value of antiquities while he and......

And now a word from our sponsor:

Thank you for the promotion of Mystic Records....I am all for and always have been for the unknown and the unheard.....after achieving 41 gold and platinum records...I deceided to devote the rest of my life and money.....to unknown groups who had something to say.. Myustic took half a million dollars in the 80s to build and I was the only investor.....Mystic is a platform of voices and not sales as are most other record companies are....still it takes some sales and income to keep going and I still have 300 full reels of unknowns to release.........Personally I do not care what you or any one else says or thinks about me...BUT do not play games with MYSTIC...it will bite you....it will always be bigger than any bad mouth......Now about downloading.........ALL RIGHTS HAVE BEEN ASSIGNED TO The Orchard an internet distributor........before you decide to have a Mystic downloading site I suggest you contact the legal guardian of the Mystic downloading rights The Orchard.com for permission.....again thank you for helping the groups and Mystic Doug

Tracks removed by request, see comments for the whole, sorted story.


Picture courtesy of Killed From The Heart. I really don't like scanning LPs; It takes like 4 passes to get the whole thing.

70 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

link to "rich man's son" doesn't work.... was always particularly fond of the conservatives, but outside of these tracks and the ones on hell comes to your house, i was never able to find anything else by or about them....

12:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

mystic has now rereleased,
"cant argue with sucksess"
with "clockwork orange county"
all on one cd, .................
doug moody still robbing us blind
for almost 30 years strong!!!
doug, feel free to use this as your new ad slogan!!!!
kerry/love canal

8:44 AM  
Blogger squabbler said...

It always blows me away how righteous people get when taking the side of indies vs. majors. In reference to Kerry's comment above, its an all too common complaint: bands getting ripped off from by independent labels. I'd say it's more the rule rather than the exception, sadly. I think the only royalties I've ever been paid over the years were for a track we had on a Pixies tribute album put out by Oglio.

10:48 AM  
Blogger squabbler said...

by the way, Love Canal was funny as hell on stage. I remember a show at Fenders during the height of the whole Uniform-Choice-California-straight-edge thing where Kerry said something like: "this next one's called It's Okay Not to Drink....cuz that leaves more beer for me". I don't think it went over too well but I found it funny. that's punk rock

11:07 AM  
Anonymous johnny said...

this is a great comp.
thanks

9:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ok, here's the skinny on my
comments above, when love canal
did a song for the clockwork orange county l.p. arab(l.c. guitar) had to chase the distrobution guy all over hollywood and we got 2 copies of the record, that's it! 2 copies for 4 people to share and then when we did the covers comp. again on mystic we got 0 copies, this was way easier to divide!!!!
but they(mystic) told us "look at all the publicity you get" well that wasnt the last time we were ripped off by record company,s but to end this diatribe...........grand theft audio(a great fuckin label!!)
will be releasing all the love canal material on 1 cd this summer!
there still is hope for the diy
punkrock world!!!!
kerry/love canal

8:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yeah Doug Moody along with Posh Boy were the biggest dirtbags of 80s punk scene. The only thing good about Mystic was that we could get drunk behind the studio (anyone remember Mystic Alley?)
Hey homez, I remember seeing Love Canal at the Olympic in '84. You guys opened up for the Exploited. Those were some crazy times!

10:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

i really hope GTA can FINALLY get some of the MISTAKE RECORDS label stuff out after all these years. hes been trying for ages & got the tapes & ok's from various bands, but word gets out & Moody surfaces with his invalid contracts (how many of the bands/members were ACTUALLY of legal age to sign a contract??!!??) & threatens legal injuctions; which in turn would take more money in legal BS to fight than the reissues would actually generate. alas they're still in limbo...whatta freakin' scumbag...Mystic always put out good stuff at cheap prices, but their packaging & advertising always made me think of that label as the "K-TEL of Punk"

6:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if you really want to make mystic
hurt , stab them in the wallet,DONT BUY ANY OF THERE REISSUES, YOU CAN DOWNLOAD THIS L.P. RIGHT HERE FOR FREE! AND I KNOW ONE OF THE OTHER BLOGS, DID
THE CLOCKWORK ORANGE COUNTY L.P. RECENTLY, SO JUST DOWNLOAD AND
MYSTIC WONT SEE A PENNY!!!!!
as far as love canal and grand theft audio we only put 2 songs out on mystic and if we have to leave them off the collection cd were putting out, i'll personally
send everyone a cdr of the 2 missing songs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
kerry/love canal

6:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

saw love canal at the olympic with m.i.a. and iconoclast. their set ended up being a prolonged beer fight between band and audience. great, funny show.....

6:22 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

saw love canal at the olympic with m.i.a. and iconoclast. their set ended up being a prolonged beer fight between band and audience. great, funny show.....

6:22 AM  
Blogger MXV said...

Kerry,

Send me yr mailing address and I'll make sure Doug sends you a few copies of the CD. email me at punkvault at gmail dot com.

3:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

if anyone wants anything,,,
"love canal"
"skoundrelz"
"motherfist"
related , they can e-mail me @
kerrya61@hotmail.com

love canal and the skoundrelz
will both have collection cd's coming out on grand theft audio
summer of 06, thanx kerry

3:38 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've heard Conservatives with "nervous" and "Just Cos" which are ripping tunes. This track here is disappointing, but the whole LP is great.

Kerry thanks for the infor on GTA.

Pogel

8:28 AM  
Anonymous john y? said...

well there are other people less than happy with DM;
http://www.wegotpowerfilms.com/
check the audio link to download the excellent party or go home lp.

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Scott said...

I love that not only did he rip off too many bands to count, but he seems to think he can type in a threatening tone. Hey Doug, fuck off. Way to lose any promotion you may have gotten from me.

12:32 PM  
Anonymous MXV said...

Scott,

In an effort to play devil's advocate so to speak, imagine you just dumped a bunch of cash into reissuing something on yr record label and also going through the trouble of making available on online stores like itunes and emusic, only to discover someone decided to make the entire LP available for a free download on a website without permission. Having a label of my own, I can tell you I would be furious and would likely send a similar letter (perhaps a little better written though). Hence one of the many reasons I only post one sample track on my own site and not an entire release.

All of the sites like this have that little disclaimer going that if you are offended or own the copyrights to the music and want your stuff removed to let it be known. Well, I'd say the case was made that it was let known that the man is opposed to offering this stuff for download, yet I still see half the LP available for downloading. So the guy is a dick for protecting something he owns the rights to? I think your anger is a bit misdirected.

I'll skip commenting on the statement about all the bands that got ripped off as I was not in those bands and its not my place to judge. I will say that I have recently seen copies of a couple of these agreements the bands signed back then, and they didn't get as ripped off as many claim they have. I'm not claiming every band got what was promised (which was product and not cash per their agreement) however not all of them got taken as some may claim.

2:43 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

lets stop worrying about the past and see how things are going to be in the future, i started alot of this diatribe and since i've talked to a lot of the intersted parties, and they(mystic) are saying they are gonna right the wrongs of the past if this is true,
more power to them, i've never said anything about the product and i will say it here, i DO LIKE
ALOT OF THE MYSTIC RELEASES AND
I HOPE THAT IN THE FUTURE I CAN WRITE BACK AND SAY, THEY DID EXACTLY WHAT THEY PROMISED!!!!
SO LOOK TO THE FUTURE , BUT NEVER FORGET THE PAST!.................
KERRY/LOVE CANAL

3:00 PM  
Anonymous Scott said...

Mxv, you are absolutely correct in your thought of no commenting, I was in a foul mood earlier and went off "half cocked" as the saying goes.

Still, I find the email to be a pretty dumb thing to send a website. "BUT do not play games with MYSTIC...it will bite you....it will always be bigger than any bad mouth" is just ridiculous. Doug, you're not in the mafia to my knowledge. I really hope all bands on these rereleases are getting paid for them. As for me, I'm staying away from posting or promoting any Moody records.

4:43 PM  
Blogger squabbler said...

I've taken down the rest of record in hopes of avoiding the Mystic drive-by that's sure to occur. But before putting this to bed completely, a couple of things:

I, to this day, have not received even one email from any disgruntled ex-band member requesting I take down his/her record. To the contrary, all that have contacted me so far have been excited just to know that people still cared about their records.

Still, I can understand the label's point of view and once contacted (even though both the email from MXV and Moody were both way over the top, more than a little hostile and generally pissed me off), took down half of the record. I thought the beef was with posting the record in it's entirety, not in posting some of it. After all, other Mystic releases were currently posted on other blogs and no other bloggers were asked to remove their files. What put me on the hot-spot, I'm sure, were all the negative remarks being made about Mystic Records and Doug Moody in particular.

Lastly, as someone who is familiar with record contracts to some extent, I know that any remotely decent indie contract will contain a clause allowing for reversion of the masters to the artist's control after some predetermined amount of time has lapsed (10 years, etc.). The fact that Moody still claims ownership to some comp tracks that were released some 20-plus years ago says that either the contracts were truely fucked or that the bands simply haven't read the fine print.

As Scott said above, I surely hope the bands are going to finally get their due. So if any ex-band members should happen to stumble upon this site at some future date, give us an update please. That is all.

6:08 PM  
Anonymous MXV said...

Well, perhaps contracts now are differet than then, plus every case is different, but all the stuff on Mystic was stated as in perpetuity or something to that effect - ie: forever. I dont' think it was that uncommmon as look at labels like Posh Boy and Frontier who now over 20 years later still own those rleases they did back in the day and keep them in print. It may not be the best deal, or the standard in modern times but those were the deals that were signed.

As for the bands on these reissues getting their copies, the reason why Kerry hadn't until now (Doug is sending him some)is that Doug is a very old man with limited resources and none of the former Mystic bands bothered to send in their change of address cards or keep in touch and truth be told, he also did a crappy job at keeping up with everyone. If anyone who was in a band on mystic that has been reissued on CD wants some copies of what they played on, they should get in touch as the man is more than happy to make good with them and would love to hear from these former bands. His email is mysticrecordmail[at]aol[dot]com.

As for why older Mystic records were posted without getting heat was probably due to the fact that those hadn't just been released on a CD which required money to be spent to put it together, and the old man never saw those previous posts. Yeah his email could have been worded different but he had a valid concern about the record being available for download in ins entirety when he just spend the time and money (as did I since I was the one that he contracted to do all the work putting it together) to release it on a CD.

8:07 PM  
Anonymous jawhn said...

Hi Mike, a lot of that makes sense to me, I understand what you're saying. I would however, like to play the devil's advocate game too, to the devil's advocate as it were. I have a tiny label that I sometimes do in my spare time and I think I'd be fine if anybody were so inclined as to post some of the vinyl only releases (and this is stuff that I'm still trying to sell -- obviously I can't speak for the bands tho.) The CDs, yeah that might be a little weird since everybody has a CD player these days.

As Squabbler wrote, I've not had anybody ask me to take anything down to date and many of my postings have the bands' and/or labels' blessings (granted, after the fact more times than not) as seems the case with Squabbler. I'm still very much on the fence about posting anything at all but in my mind, it's sort of like the tape trading a lot of us did as kids. Remember how exiting that was, to find stuff you'd never heard before through some cheap trade? It was exciting for me anyway and I think this modern day version of it is exposing a whole new generation, young and old alike (shit I've found countless things on some of the better music blogs that I never even knew existed and I'm eternally grateful for it!)

That said, I don't see how one song vs. more than one song really matters when it's something that's otherwise unavailable. I mean, they're both equally as bad (or good as the case may be.) Are you saying it would be less uncool to only pirate one of the OOP songs, like you do or that you're somehow above it entirely? I'm not arguing it, just trying to understand. I guess each of us have our own ideas about what we're doing here -- personally, I make every effort to post things that aren't otherwise "available", things that other people haven't already spent their time doing and just things that I personally enjoy. Everything I do is being ripped and digitized by me, scanned by me, written by me, etc. How the next guy does it is their business (well, I still think it's uncool for people to post things that others have already worked so hard doing but whatever.) I've talked with some of the other guys and get the feeling this unwritten etiquette is mostly across the board.

Doug contacted me too, as you're aware, and agreed to do an interview for PunkRecords.Org but didn't ask me to take down the Insolents 7" I'd posted. In fact, he's been very pleasant in the mails I've exchanged with him. I've gotten a fair bit of feedback from many of the bands so I think the interview will prove quite interesting, if not enlightening.

8:12 PM  
Anonymous MXV said...

I'm sure he was fine with the Insolents single on yr site for the simple fact that it isn't in print in any format right now, and as I type this, it isn't slated for anything anytime soon. Yeah someday it will make its way onto a CD. It was the LP of this discussion that was the real bummer since it was just released.

As for the 1 vs many tracks - I guess there is no real good answer to that. When I do those features on my site I only post one for a variety of reasons and I feel it would be weird and in some way wrong to post an entire record unless the band told me it was OK or asked me to. But I approach the entire thing differently anyway and my current mindset is I don't even want to do any of them unless I'm doing it with a band member's involvment these days. That's not to say I won't do some again where I'm writing about them though. My approach is more of a document on the band and one of their releases I guess and less about swapping songs. Hell, I dont' know if this is even making much sense at this point in my typing, its been a long day and I'm wiped out.

I only chimed in to begin with because I worked on the CD reissue and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way when after the owner of the recordings sent the email, he got blasted because people didn't seem to like the fact that they were told not to post the tracks.

And I look forward to reading that interview when you get it done and posted. Having done some work for the man the past couple of years now, I can tell you he isnt' the villan that many painted him out to be and in fact has been quite generous. When I lost my job, he sent me a big box of brand new Mystic CDs and told me to sell them and keep the money because he knew I was broke and needed some income. So that is hardly the act of a greedy ripoff artist if you ask me. I'd think it would be great if all these old bands he worked with would try and get in touch with him and talk out their grievances instead of just bitching about the past.

9:01 PM  
Anonymous jawhn said...

No no, you're making sense... that's just the thing though, each one of these posts, on Squabbler's board, mine, yours, whoever, is a single document of the band, the release, whatever it happens to be and the really great thing is that they're all publicly open for comments from *anybody*, to add to that document. Any jackass can post and download songs over p2p nets but I think this is something special, a much less anonymous community that is open to everybody. I only have so many records (and only a fraction are OOP potential posts and only a fraction of those will probably be anything that I care enough about to listen to again, much less write something about) so it will eventually dry up and I'll go back to whatever it was I used to do with that hour of my day. Hopefully by that time, others will have been inspired as I was and start doing their own music blogs, which I'm already looking forward to.

12:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY, I THINK WERE GETTING AWAY FROM THE REAL ISSUE HERE..........
LOVE CANAL WAS FUNNY AS HELL ON STAGE, AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD RESULT IN US FIGHTING THE CROWD
WITH BEER OR SPIT!! AND YES ONCE
IN AWHILE WE WOULD EVEN PLAY IN
TUNE!............................
AND THE OTHER MINOR ISSUE IS THAT
MYSTIC PUT OUT SOME GOOD STUFF AND AS A MUSIC FAN, I WANT TO HEAR THIS STUFF ON EVERY FORMAT AVALIBLE
WHEN MYSTIC MAKES GOOD ON THEIR
PROMISES, I WILL BE THE FIRST TO
SAY, THANK YOU DOUG MOODY FOR CLOSE TO 30 YEARS OF SERVICE!
KERRY/LOVE CANAL

9:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY, I THINK WERE GETTING AWAY FROM THE REAL ISSUE HERE..........
LOVE CANAL WAS FUNNY AS HELL ON STAGE, AND SOMETIMES IT WOULD RESULT IN US FIGHTING THE CROWD
WITH BEER OR SPIT!! AND YES ONCE
IN AWHILE WE WOULD EVEN PLAY IN
TUNE!............................
AND THE OTHER MINOR ISSUE IS THAT
MYSTIC PUT OUT SOME GOOD STUFF AND AS A MUSIC FAN, I WANT TO HEAR THIS STUFF ON EVERY FORMAT AVALIBLE
WHEN MYSTIC MAKES GOOD ON THEIR
PROMISES, I WILL BE THE FIRST TO
SAY, THANK YOU DOUG MOODY FOR CLOSE TO 30 YEARS OF SERVICE!
KERRY/LOVE CANAL

9:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reissuing a record costs maybe a few thousand at best and the sales can't possibly exceed 2K. The real issue isn't whether posting the songs hurts sales, it's the manner in which the issue was dealt with. And yes, a band that signs a contract that states the label owns the masters in perpetuity is stupid and the label that asks for that right is downright deceitful. MXV, This isn't like the film studios of yesteryear who regularly screwed their actors, recording contracts are very different so it isn't a matter of the standard of twenty years ago vs. present day standards. Bad deals happen and it is on the band to steer clear of those offers but you also have to question the business ethics of someone who would knowingly offer an artist a situation that wasn't merely advantageous to the label but the equivalence of theft.

9:49 AM  
Blogger squabbler said...

In case I didn't mention it before, I was unaware that this had been re-released recently. If I'd known, I would have just posted something else.

Oh, and one more thing. There is some money to be made off of these reissues. Even on a small run of 2000 CDs or so, with no initial recording costs, a manufacturing cost of around $2 a disc, and your typical $9 wholesale to distributors, you've got around a $7 per disc gross margin. That's $14,000 before any advertising or overhead. All I'm saying is, giving just a few discs to each band as payment is pretty paltry.

11:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Suqabbler, thanks for following up on my request. Seems to have piqued a lot of "interest". Keep up the good work.

11:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why did you delete my post about that piece of shit Doug Moody??

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think mystic did a good job - i could always find mystic 7" for 2 - 3 bucks through out the 80's. The bands might have suffered in royalties, but Doug got their name out on a large scale. It did come across as the KTEL punk stuff, but i still love it. I think it was a big part of our culture in LA and the bands did benefit from these early releases with or without getting paid.

Anyway - im trying to compile a complete list of the Mystic punk stuff. If anyone has info they would like to contribute that would be great.

12:43 PM  
Blogger embryo666 said...

Doug Moody is a legend !!!
Dont forget a lot of those bands wouldnt have got this far if it wasnt for Mystic!

7:04 AM  
Blogger XweAponX said...

Whoever sent you that message that The Orchard is handling Doug Moody's stuff? Is lying:

This is a search result from The Orchard.

Artist: \"Social Spit\"



We didn't find any Release or Artist matching your criteria.
Suggestions:

Check your spelling.
Try less restrictions in your search.
Try more general words.
Try different words that mean the same thing.

-----------------------

So I see that you removed the tracks listing from your article about our album "There's no place like Home" based on this psuedo-threat: I can tell you now, with assertion, Moody don't own any of the tracks on ANY album of ours that was ever released on Mystic Records.

I'm just one of that many artists who have reclaimed my music back from obscurity, cos it is as simple as this: Moody never ever copyrighted any or our EP's or our LP. So, I think you can disregard that little email that he sent you. Look, I dealt with this ass first hand. Last time I ever dealt with him, I handed his boy Phil a copy of MY copyright form for all of the works that he has released. Thios form can be searched out at the Library of Congress website. Actually if you type Doug Moody a suprising and alarming LACK OF RESULTS is returned fro Library of Congress. Same thing for SuperSeven Records, Mystic Records, and you can use several alterations of the spelling, you will never see it in LOC.

Cliff and I, we sell our albums to anyone who wants them, with all original art, on CD format. But just for now, anyone wants a copy of any Social Spit "Mystic" EP, contact me and I'll burn you one for free and send it to you gratis.

FUCK MOODY. I met this rat bastard in 1982. Wish it never had happened.

3:00 PM  
Blogger XweAponX said...

Oi, I just noticed my friend from Love Canal has posted here. Dunno if he looks at this blog anymore. Kerry, if you see this drop me a line at socialspit@NOSPAMgmail.com remove the NOSPAM. Cliff said that you guys had a good talk, that was about a year ago.

6:12 PM  
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